| Archive-Name: alt-gothic-faq
Posting-Frequency: monthly Last-Modified: 24 October 2000 URL: http://www.darkwave.org.uk/faq/ag Maintainer: agFAQ@hotmail.com Version: 3.24.1 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS LIST FOR ALT.GOTHIC NEWSGROUP
Table of Contents Section: 1B Charter Questions and General Newsgroup Stuff. Subject: 1.1 What is this
newsgroup really about then?
Subject:
2.1 What Gothic music lists exist?
Section: 3 The Gothic Subculture Subject: 3.1 What
is a Goth?
Section: 4 Various Trivia (Music, arts and intoxicants) Subject: 4.1 Is the Nefilim a spelling mistake?
Introduction This FAQ covers both the basics of the newsgroup and the basics of the gothic subculture, it is not, however intended to be extensive in either. For this reason it is recommended that it be read in conjunction with other material. For those new to this group, but not usenet, the following are suggested:
For those new to newsgroups, please read the news.newusers FAQs available from ftp://rtfm.mit.edu and its mirror sites (ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet in the UK).
Changes from version 3.2
Section: 1A The Charter
PURPOSE
BINARIES ADVERTISING ARTICLE FORMAT MODERATION
OTHER NEWSGROUPS
This list is not exhaustive; other groups exist including:
alt.gothic.culture; alt.gothic.music; alt.music.gothic;
Many of these groups have no FAQ file, and some have no purpose. For the record, they are generally held to follow nettiqute and the alt.gothic FAQ (where appropriate).
Section: 1B Charter Questions and General Newsgroup Stuff
Subject: 1.1 So What is this newsgroup really about? Well, to be honest the vast majority of the discussion that goes on isn't 100% in line with the purpose. It deals with death and weirdness or anything of interest to us really. If you read the newsgroup for a while (say a month or so) it's pretty easy to pick up on the sorts of things we're interested in. Subject: 1.2 I'm new, what should I do now? First of all, familiarise yourself with this document and those referenced from it. There's nothing like striding into a newsgroup and asking _really_ silly questions to get you flamed (attacked). Next, although it may be tempting to reply to _every_ article,
please don't. Its our experience (and we were all newbies once) that it takes
people a while to get into the rhythm of the group. Make
sure that when you do post, you actually have something to say, and you
know how you're going to say it. If you post lots meaningless fluff, you
are quickly going to get a reputation for it an no-one will ever read your
posts.
And, well, welcome to alt.gothic!
Subject:
1.3 Are there any subjects I should avoid?
Glad you asked. First of all, be nice. alt.gothic has had a reputation
for being a little bit, erm, 'heated' at times.
Subject:
1.4 What type of material is appropriate for this group?
Pretty much anything that is relevant to the gothic subculture is
admissible.
It's a good idea to keep your original posts on-topic (if you can figure
out what "on-topic" is =). Threads nearly always end up splitting into
a bunch of off-topic discussion, which is perfectly valid. There is no
set of rules which defines exactly what is on- or off-topic, especially
since "gothic" is an extremely broad term. Bear in mind that the common
bond between all of us who read/post to alt.gothic is that we have some
interest in the gothic scene. Because of that, we often share many other
interests, ranging from the esoteric (e.g. philosophy, religion, obscure
Fields of the Nephilim trivia) to the mundane (e.g. hair colour preferences,
gothic cat names). If you feel others who read this group will be interested,
post it.
A very few people post poetry or short written works on alt.gothic.
If you are doing this, please let the rest of us know with an indication
in the subject line (e.g. Dead Roses [poem]). Or better yet post it to
the newsgroup alt.gothic.nights.
Subject: 1.5 What are
all these abbreviations?
Most of them are band names, there are very many gothic bands with
quite long names, these are normally abbreviated. Some common ones
are as follows:
And so fourth. The use of abbreviations falls in and out of favour on
a.g, but usually someone will use the full name. If in doubt, ask in e-mail.
Like many groups, alt.gothic has developed its own vernacular and jargon.
We've done it for the express purpose of making communication difficult.
However, as you're smart enough to read this FAQ, here's a few clues:
Subject: 1.6 What is this
GothCode?
The goth code is simply a method by which one can very concisely
describe oneself. For more information see -Synic-'s page at
http://code.goth.net/
There are encoders and decoders for various versions of the gothcode,
most of which are available via the web, although the URLs change more
frequently than this document so are not included. Besides, real Goths
code by hand.
Subject: 1.7 What
is a net.goth?
Like many things this started out as part of a joke, a score of over
80 on the Goth Test (see 1.8) qualified one as a net.goth. Since then it
has been used as a general handle for a goth who communicates a great deal
via the internet.
Subject: 1.8 What is
this "Goth Test"?
The Goth Test is a list of questions like any test, the difference
between the Goth Test and most others is that the Goth Test is a joke.
It's available via anonymous FTP at: It can also be found in Take a Bite 1.0 - jokingly subtitled 'the net.goth
handbook', which is also available at the same site.
An on-line version of the goth test, similar in style to the purity
tests, can be found at:
A troll is a person who posts messages with the express intention of
annoying the people on the newsgroup. For more information see the AGSF
FAQ at http://www.zenweb.com/pan/panstuff/agsffaq.htm
If you suspect a post is of this type then please do not reply to it,
trolls thrive on the attention of others, without replies they get bored
and go away.
Subject: 1.10 What is AGSF
(alt.gothic.Special-Forces)?
You. Whenever the newsgroup is being invaded by trolls or other lowlifes,
we band together to bring these idiots to justice. Usually this involves
mass emailing of said idiots' postmaster or system administrator, forwarding
the offensive posts back and demanding that they do something about their
user(s).
The official AGS-F page can be found here:
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/agsf/
, which is mirrored here (and elsewhere):
http://www.zenweb.com/pan/agsf/
The AGSF FAQ is online at:
http://www.zenweb.com/pan/panstuff/agsffaq.htm
Subject: 1.11
How do I identify a net goth?
The words net.goth in lower case should be written on them
somewhere.
The jacket arm just below the shoulder is recommended by Sexbat (but he
may be teasing you - be warned :-)
Further to this there have been many versions of 'net.goth' t-shirts
and net.goth ID cards have been produced at various events.
The denizens of aus.culture.gothic are reputed to pin a li'l black
ribbon on their clothing. The method was created and made popular by Django
Upton.
Subject:
1.12 What's with these "Is XXXXX gothic" questions?
There are three reasons why people post these messages.
Subject: 1.13 What is
the [AG] tag?
This tag is placed at the beginning (and sometimes the end) of the subject
line of a post intended for and posted only to alt.gothic. We started using
this tagging system after some lunkhead subscribed alt.gothic to a bunch
of mailing lists, resulting in massive amounts of messages (literally
hundreds)
with no relevance to alt.gothic whatsoever. It became difficult and
frustrating
to weed through all these posts in hopes of finding an alt.gothic post--with
the [AG] tag they are easily identified. Sometimes we still use the tag
whenever the newsgroup is getting full of spam and crossposts.
Another habit, although one which has fallen into disuse, is to preface
music related posts with [agm].
Subject:
1.14 What have you got against Marilyn Manson?
The simple reason for all the disparaging remarks is that a lot
people
honestly don't like Manson, and are somewhat fed up with the
media's
having seized on MM as the definitive gothic icon 9which he is far from),
and with it's constant characterization of them as Manson worshipping Spooky
Kids.This is far from a majority opinion however. The only consensus
that *does* exist is that most regulars are sick to death of seeing, "Why
do you hate MM?" questions posted.
If you have a real interest in this topic, we recommend that you do
some research on DejaNews. Most of the material is in
the old databse now, the search string "(Marilyn Manson)
~g alt.gothic" should bring up plenty of information as this
topic has been covered quite thoroughly in the past, nd any mention of
it at present will likely get *lots* of flames, and few straight answers.
(jack#mari.net)
Yes, but not to alt.gothic.
Probably the best way to post one is to put it on a website and post
the URL to alt.gothic.
The next best thing is to post it to alt.binaries.gothic and post ONE
message to alt.gothic saying that you have done so - it's a good idea to
include the message-id of your binary in the advertising post to alt.gothic.
Please read the alt.binaries.gothic FAQ before posting anything there.
Its URL is http://www.zenweb.com/pan/panstuff/abgfaq.htm
Subject:
1.16 What's the deal with this <insert name> character?
The chances are you're wondering why everyone seems to have so
much
respect for "just another poster". That's probably because the poster is
a 'Great Old One'. Jack (Jack#Mari.net) explains...
"It's not that the people who've been around for a while are really
any *better* than the newer people, or even that they've got some sort
of sooper-sekrit kabal" thingie going with the other oldsters. The power
of the Great Old Ones comes, I think, simply from that fact that they've
seen it all before, over, and over, and over, and over."
Subject:
1.17 What do you have against vampires?
The mainstream media frequently correlates
vampires/blood-drinkers/satanists
and goths. This irritates a lot of the readers of the newsgroup and the
wider subculture.
So, if you post something that is about vampires you are going
to be flamed. Make no assumptions.
There are several other newsgroups dealing with vampire culture
which
are more appropriate forums for such matters.
They include:
Subject:
2.1 What Gothic music e-mail lists exist?
The Sisters of Mercy Electronic mailing list run by Pete French (-bat).
Send mail to dominion-request#ohm.york.ac.uk to ask to be added to the
list. Send postings to dominion#ohm.york.ac.uk. Be warned, some of
There is also a Fields of the Nephilim Electronic mailing list. Mail
to neph-request#wave.cerf.net to ask be added to the mailing list. The
address to post to the list is neph#wave.cerf.net
24 Hours, the Joy Division, New Order and related list. You
subscribe through the web, at http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/24hours
The World Serpent (label for Current 93 and Death in June) mailing list
is available by sending a message to listserv@necronomi.com with no subject,
whose body consists of the single line: subscribe wsd-l.
Subject:
2.2 Where are the gothic FTP & WWW sites?
ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music/gothic
http://www.darkwave.org.uk There is also another gothic archive site in the United States by Peter
Stone (bat#cyberden.com) at cyberden.com.
It contains much of the original gothic archive site as of 12/93, as well
as other new material.
By far the greatest sites out there can be accessed by a little digging
Subject:
2.3 Where can I find lyrics, pictures, etc for a goth band?
There is a huge music archive available via anonymous FTP at ftp.uwp.edu:/pub/music.
If a band isn't at the goth archive, it might very well be at the
main music archive.
There are also a number of goth World Wide Web servers out there, and
the following should get you started, and most have links to other
sites.
The Dark Side by VampLestat (lestat#vamp.org) is at
Rob's Gothic Section is at
The Sisters of Mercy Home Page by Ian Grimstead is at
For those in the UK, refer to the UK Netgoth events list, maintained by jen at http://www.netgoth.org.uk/events/
The Dark Side of the Net is at
Subject:
2.4 What are some various Vampire related net resources?
Vampires? What are they? :)
You'd do best to start looking in alt.vampyres and their FAQ file, which
should be archived at ftp://rtfm.mit.edu or http://www.enteract.com/~jetgirl/vamps/faq.html.
Alt.vampyres is only for the discussion of vampire literature, film,
fiction, poetry, etc.
'Real' vampires should wing it to alt.culture.vampires and that groups
FAQ at: http://home.ican.net/~solstice/acvfaq.html
Subject:
2.5 Are there any good goth clubs in <fill in city>?
Digitar (digitar#io.org) maintains a list of Goth clubs worldwide. E-mail
him for a copy, or FTP 'GothClubs' from the goth archive at ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music/
gothic.
There is also a hypertext version at
It is an onerous task to maintain such a list, and through no fault
of his own Digitar's list can be inaccurate. It is better to look for a
local list, which often be done by visiting WWW seach engines such as http://www.yahoo.com.
For those in the UK, refer to HELIX, maintained by Doktor Joy at
http://www.pennangalan.co.uk/Helix
For those in Australia, the aus.culture.gothic FAQ contains relevant
information. The URL is http://www.ooze.net/auscg
If you know of another country (or state) specific list, would you please
mail details of how to get hold of it to the maintainer, currently
ag_FAQ#nandomail.com
Subject 2.6: Are there any location specific goth mailing lists?
Yep. Go to http://www.replicant.net/gothlists/
- there's a whacking
huge list of them.
UK goths might like to check out http://www.darkwave.org.uk/more.php?cat=Mailing%20Lists
Subject: 2.7
Are there any goths in <X> City/Area?
Probably. It is a valid question, but one can get a little dull if asked
over and over again. So your first port of call should be the regional
mailing lists (s2.6) or Pan't Net.Got Directory at http://www.zenweb.com/pan/netgoth
.
There are in excess of 700 people listed at this point, so sign up.
Again, there's a UK resource - the UK & Ireland gothmap, which is
located at http://www.netgoth.org.uk/gothmap that covers shops, clubs, people, mailing lists and pubs in each
county. Over 10,000 people are registered at this point, so go check it out. This is another one of dishmop's pet hosting/coding projects.
An absolutely fabulous and essential 'Origins' web site, which collects
and collates original reference material, maintained by Pete Scathe can be found
at:
http://www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth.htm
It's well worth poking around the site to expand your horizons.
The Oxford English Dictionary gives the definition as:
Ask any goth through and you'll get a different definition. In fact
you'll get just about as many definitions as goths that you ask.
There are a few points that we do tend to agree on; it was originally
a youth "movement" in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and was
an offshoot of punk. From originally being little more than a fashion and
a type of music though, it developed its own philosophies and became a
subculture; even a way of life for some.
Subject:
3.2 Where did the term 'gothic' come from?
It was used three significant times by people in the music industry
to refer to music.
The term 'Goth' was used by Ian Astbury who described Andi Sex Gang
as a 'gothic pixie'.
Siouxsie Sioux (of the Banshees) used 'Gothic' to describe the new
direction
for her band.
Probably the earliest usage, as applied to music though was by Anthony
H. Wilson (Joy Division manager) who was overcome by a rare moment of lucidity
on a 1979 BBC TV program when he described Joy Division as Gothic compared
with the pop mainstream.
How 'Goth' and 'Gothic' came to be used to describe the movement though
is a little less clear. What is certain is that NME and Sounds used it,
and there seem to be two suggestions as to where they got it from.
The first is that they took it directly from Siousxie Sioux and they
themselves then used it to describe what we know as goths today.
The second (and more probable) is that they took it from Abbo, singer
of UK Decay, who said to a journalist: "We're into the whole Gothic
thing", which naturally got printed.
It bears repeating: An absolutely fabulous 'Origins' website, which
collects and collates original reference material, maintained by Pete Scathe
can be found at:
Subject:
3.3 What the history of the goth movement?
The pop journalists were quick to latch onto the term and they applied
it in a nasty sort of pigeonholing way to a number of bands that were around
in the early 80s - most of which did not sound much like the Banshees (or
anyone else for that matter), the journalists were more concerned with
looks. The (Southern Death) Cult was foremost amongst these bands, like
the Banshees they wore lots of black and silver and had extreme black hair.
The Sisters of Mercy were also so labelled and when they split and Wayne
Hussey founded the Mission they carried their label with them, despite
being different musically. Finally The Fields of the Nephilim appeared
and they (perhaps) consciously and deliberately got themselves labeled
as Gothic despite looking and sounding quite different to what had previously
been labeled Goth.
The fans of bands like the Sisters, Bauhaus and Siouxsie liked to dress
up in lots of black. The music they liked was something of a backlash against
the colourful disco music of the seventies. The Banshees were a punk band
before they mellowed and punk was breathing its last as Gothdom gathered
speed, and so one could claim Gothdom grew out of punk. The music of Joy
Division, the Sisters and Bauhaus was angst-ridden but all the hatred was
turned inwards and the music was typified by introspective lyrics. Many
of the new Goth followers were introspective too. Some were a bit confused
by the label and started to think that the label Goth was in some way
connected
with the Victorian Gothic revival and Gothic horror and because enough
of them thought that eventually it became true.
NME and Sounds were not oblivious to this and produced many hilarious
articles poking fun at the Goths amongst their readers. They said
that
being Goth was about sitting around in circles on the floor of pubs (bars)
smoking a lot and talking about being a bat. Some readers of this list
get angry at this. Luckily most Goths have a good enough sense of humour
to laugh at themselves once in a while. The first generation Goths complain
that second and third generation Goths often seem to think that Gothdom
is about wearing the blackest black, with a lot of silver jewellery and
looking as thin and pale as possible. In common with their older brethren,
they avoid the crass commercialism of mainstream rock and gather together
to share their woes :-) They read Bram Stoker and Anne Rice and talk about
being vampires. They read H.P. Lovecraft and talk about the end of the
world.
The sounds that were described as Gothic were appearing in other countries
besides the UK in the late seventies, but there is not yet any hard evidence
that they were using the word. If you have any, send it in.
Currently Germany is the bastion of Goth, where they are called Grufties.
If German people are doing a write up on the Goth scene there, please send
me a copy.
So that's how we got where we are today. Today Goth is about music,
literature, art and clothes.
Subject: 3.4 Is goth about
religion?
Goths, like individuals, share differing views on the existance (or
lack thereof) of the supernatural. Some Goths are atheists and some are
new age spiritualists, wiccans and members of other alternative religious
groups. There are Christian Goths. Goth is not about religion, but uses
the imagery of religion. May goths wear crosses or ankhs, and there are
many religious references in goth songs, but it is not a religious movement.
Goth uses religous imagery in some songs. Christian Death are big
on this. Bauhaus did a couple of tracks with religious imagery. The Sisters
have a quasi-religious name but this is ironic, their music shows that
religion is not Andrew Eldritch's main concern - he says he prefers politics.
The Mission (UK) were fairly 'new age'. Carl McCoy favoured shamanistic
traditions and gnostic revelation.
Religious jewellery is often worn, particularly crucifixes and ankhs.
These are strong symbols with powerful subconscious effects. Sometimes
they are worn as an satirical statement, sometimes not. For some it is
just fashion.
Subject:
3.5 What does gothic music sound like?
You have to ask the difficult ones, don't you? :)
Gothic music is very difficult to classify or categorise. Most people
agree though that there are three general 'waves' of gothic music.
The old school was a direct descendant of punk. It had a distinctly
punk sound, but with very dark overtones. This can be heard in the early
work of Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Joy Division, Southern Death
Cult, some early Cure and Danse Society.
The middle era ushered in bands such as the Sisters of Mercy, who had
a distinctive power-pop flavour, it also saw the original punk sound mutate
and become more experimental, Sex Gang Children typified this;
Xmal-Deutschland
are also worth considering. Alien Sex Fiend also fall into the same musical
category, although their music is much more light-hearted and an 'acquired
taste'. They also qualify as 'old school' by virtue of a stint at the Batcave
- well, their music always has been, err, 'progressive'. The March Violets
are a hybrid of the old school and power-pop and are well worth a listen.
To complicate matters further, there also sprang up a movement
of
ethereal, experimental goth that didn't have much of a punk
background
at all. Clan of Xymox, Dead Can Dance and the Cocteau Twins are notable
here.
From here on it gets even more complicated. The Fields of the
Nephilim
were considered a gothic band despite elements of heavy metal not seen
before in gothic music. The baton was picked up later by Valor's Christian
Death.
From then until the early 1990s the scene went deatly quiet, with the
only bands really making an impression being Fields of the Nephilim, The
Mission and All About Eve. The last two bands started off being considered
gothic and then drifted into other things.
The early to mid-1990s saw a revival, lead by Rosetta Stone, whose music
at the time was similar in nature to that of the Sisters of Mercy in
1985.
Rosetta changed though and soon shed the label of a Sisters of Mercy
soundalike.
The 1990s has seen a wealth of new bands spring up, ranging in sound
from old school through to styles previously unheard.
Rosetta Stone became distinctly more industrial in later years, and
joined the ranks of James Rays Gangwar in the goth industrial section.
Midnight Configuration have made a mark for themselves in the fetish
section.
Inkkubus Sukkubus are probably the first goth band with a distinctive
religious flavour (Wiccan) to make any impression.
The influence of heavy metal has become stronger, with bands
like
Creaming Jesus, the Dream Disciples and the Marionettes. Some people
consider Marilyn Manson, Type O Negative and even Cradle of Filth to be
gothic although this is hotly debated, and widely considered a side-effect
of the media incorrectly labelling these bands (see section 3.6).
The 1990s have also moved the geographic base of gothic music. The
late
70s and 80s bands were pretty much UK based, but with notable input from
Australia (Nick Cave, Birthday Party, Dead Can Dance), the USA (Christian
Death) and Germany (Xmal Deutschland). It is true that the largest proportion
of gothic bands are still UK-based, but the scene as a whole has a much
more international flavour.
So, what is gothic music? No one seems entirely sure. There are key
elements of style, substance, presentation and past association.
It's generally dark, often so are the band - but it is definitely more
than singing about vampires, blood, death, doom, love, sex and
whipping;
although that's enough for some people. Most importantly the music must
speak to you, the little bit which seems to enjoy the night, and the dark.
Subject:
3.6 Is goth music anything to do with heavy/black metal?
There are two main reasons why black metal and its followers are confused
with goths and gothic rock.
Firstly, there are elements of dress and style in common; dark clothes,
monochrome make-up, weird silver jewelry, etc. As a general rule though,
if you see an upside-down cross, pentacle (five pointed start in a circle)with
a point directly downwards, or any satanic message, the wearer is a black
metaller and not a goth.
Secondly, black metal can quite correctly be referred to as "gothic
music" - meaning "barbarous, uncouth" (OED). "Gothic Rock", or simply "goth"
is what describes the music of the post-punk subculture that is the subject
of this document.
Black metal tends to have associated with it Satanism, and in some cases
racism. Goths abhor racism, and as Subject 3.4 states, goth is not about
religion (of any kind).
Heavy metal, in particular bands such as Black Sabbath and Metallica
are sometimes labeled 'gothic' also. Again it is not part of the gothic
movement. Some goths do appreciate the music however, but then there are
those who appreciate the Spice Girls, Aqua, or the pop-trend of the day.
Subject:
3.7 So what does the word 'goth' mean.
The word 'Goth' does indeed refer to a tribe of the indo-european kind.
The Goths slowly integrated into the melting pot of Europe and basically
disappeared.
The word 'gothic' is first found in common usage in 1611, referring
mainly to an 'uncivilized lack of taste or education'. The people who
built in the 'gothic' style would have never used this term. These people
were monks or artisans who worked for the church to build a land of Cathedrals
from the 11th century on. They also built castles and other edifices. The
16th century saw a large amount of turmoil with the reform and all. This
opened up the architecture field quite a bit. This new wave of artists
looked back on what they saw as a bland repetitive style of architecture
as 'gothic'. Unfortunately, because of the shallowness of the learned men
at that time, it stuck. It was also referred to as Ogive - or the
characteristic
arch of this style - this word is usually used by most politically correct
historians.
The fact is: Ogive architecture today is extremely inspiring and beautiful.
The nameless men who designed and built these works of grandeur were very
talented and inspired. One merely has to look at the Cathedral of Chartres,
Paris, Amiens, Canterbury or any of the other edifices of this age to realize
irony of using 'gothic'. In fact, to augment the irony, the popular opinion
today is that much of the baroque architecture of the 17th and 18th centuries
is gaudy and flamboyant.
Subject: 4.1
Is the Nefilim a spelling mistake?
This was the name for Carl McCoy's band after he left Fields of
the
Nephilim. The rest of the original Fields went on to form Rubicon,
who
were not considered 'gothic'.
Subject:
4.2 Has Fields of the Nephilim re-formed?
Yes, although a the time of writing the exact line-up is unclear. It
is understood that there is a new drummer. More information
is always welcome. Carl McCoy continues to work on the Nefilim also, and
new albums from both bands are expected in late 1999.
Subject: 4.3 Has Bauhaus
reformed?
Yes, they did. The Bauhaus Resurrection tour wound its way through
America and Europe before the lads called it a day. They've issued a new "Best Of" called 'Crackle' and they have just released a live album entitled 'Gotham'. Cheeky bastards.
Two new songs, including a version of Dead Can Dance's 'Severance'
have been recorded. A new original album is in the works.
For more info hike to: http://www.bauhausmusik.com.
Subject
4.3.1 Did you know one of the kids from New Kids on the
Block...?
Yes! Yes, it hadn't failed to escape our attention that one of the (then)
young tikes is wearing a Bauhaus T-shirt in their video for 'The Right
Stuff'. We've been told a million times. Thank-you.
Further, in October 1999 Goddess of Freak uncovered the following:
“What's scary was I was watching MuchMusic one day and they did a
little
Subject:
4.4 Where does the phrase Sisters of Mercy arise from?
Andrew Eldritch chose the phrase as the name of this band from a Leonard
Cohen song of that name. The song is widely thought to be referring
to prostitutes as 'Sisters of Mercy'. The truth is the song is just about
a couple of nice friends who stayed with Mr Cohen once upon a time
There is also a religious order who are known by that name. They are
not simply rapid fans.
Mick Mercer's Gothic Rock Book says something about a newspaper
headline.
It was not intended seriously.
Subject:
4.5 Are the Sisterhood the same as the Sisters of Mercy?
The Sisterhood was a one shot band created by Andrew Eldritch to stop
Wayne Hussey using the name when Hussey left the Sisters of Mercy.
By the way, 25000 pounds was not granted in a court case - it is merely the
advance budget that the Mission didn't get.
Subject:
4.6 What's this SSV thing I've heard about Andrew Eldritch doing?
In order to escape his contract with WEA/East West records for
two remaining Sisters albums Andrew Eldritch reputedly spent an afternoon
mumbling into a microphone to record what he calls an album that
"bears
no resemblance to *any* quality product, let alone the Sisters". For
a
total of two days work over "reject material of some amateur acquaintances"
we have an album of "rather bad sub-techno" that dwells almost exclusively
on the glorification of shooting people and selling drugs to school children.
It is rumoured that the full name of the band
(SSV-NSMABAAOTWMODAACOTIATW)
apparently stands for 'Screw Shareholder Values'.
Of the (still officially unreleased) record, alt.gothic regular Pete
Scathe said: "Imagine an early demo where they're still not sure where
to put the drums, the vocals & the tune & that's about
right."
The album's called 'Go Figure'.
As far as we are aware SSV has never been officially released, but it
is available in the form of MP3 files from http://members.xoom.com/ssv/
. Be warned, it's bad.
Subject: 4.7
What has Anne Rice written?
Anne Rice is alive and well and writes supernatural romance. Interview
with a Vampire is her most artistic work (and the book on which the film
of the same name was based).
She has also written:
As well as a trilogy of bondage stories under the name of A.N. Roquelaire
- which are not gothic. Two 'romance' novels as Anne Rampling, called Exit
to Eden and Belinda, as well as a short story: Master of Rampling Gate.
Anne Rice's Vampire LeStat Fan Club
The newsgroup alt.books.anne-rice
is, surprisingly enough, a good place to look for more information
:)
Subject: 4.8 Who is Storm
Constantine?
Another Gothic author. Storm is more Gothic and less mainstream than
Anne Rice. She has a series of books which have a lot in common with Anne
Rice's vampire chronicles. She is interested in the occult and in very
ancient mythology, biblical connections et cetera. Some of her ideas are
very controversial, often in total contradiction with most well known academic
research. She is published by Headline in the UK.
Inception: Storm Constantine Information Service
There are also a large number of WWW sites dedicated to Storm Constantine,
these can be searched for on www.yahoo.com etc.
Inception can be reached at http://www.crl.com/~vanyel/inception.html
and there is an apparently official site at
Subject: 4.9
Any other interesting goth authors?
It's all down to a matter of tatse. Quite often on alt.gothic there
is a poll of favourite authors, highly recommended books and the like,
and the ever-lovely Thessaly has collected the cream of the crop from http://www.gothic.net/~thessaly/agbl.html
There are plenty of candidates (depending how you define a goth author),
including Bram Stoker and H.P. Lovecraft. Bram Stoker wrote Dracula and
Lair of the White Worm amongst others. He died of syphilis and was quite
mad at the end.
Edgar Allen Poe was also a talented author. Many of his works can
be
found at http://www.visi.com/~talon/bizarre/poe.html
Poppy Z Brite. If someone wants to write a short piece for the FAQ on
her and mail it to me I would be most appreciative; We know very little
about her.
H.P. Lovecraft wrote many short stories, most of which involved
the
Cthulhu mythos which he invented. He died after a tragically
short
career. He had a phobia of cold and was quite reclusive. He wrote a classic
paper on Gothic Horror which is a must read.
There's an excellent HPL/Cthulhu site at: http://www.hplovecraft.com
Subject: 4.10 Any
interesting goth movies?
The German Expressionists are quite Gothic and the film Nosferatu
(the
B&W version) is considered very Gothic. The remake: Nosferatu the Vampyre
is also Gothic despite being in colour. The Cabinet of Doctor Caligari
is probably the most Gothic film of all.
And of course there are the common ones, "Dracula" (in its many remakes),
"The Hunger" staring David Bowie, and "Interview with a Vampire" staring
Tom Cruise.
Subject:
4.11 Who is Andrew Eldritch; Carl McCoy; Wayne Hussey, etc?
Andrew Eldritch (aka Andrew Taylor) and Carl McCoy are the singers from
The Sisters of Mercy and The Fields of the Nephilim respectively. They
both were pillars of the Goth community. However, Andrew Eldritch has recently
taken to being exceedingly obnoxious (rather than just plain obnoxious),
trying to distance himself from the gothic 'scene'. Some nasty accusations
have also surrounded Carl McCoy's departure from the Nefilim and reforming
of Fields of the Nephilim.
Wayne Hussey was a guitarist in the Sisters but he left in a bad
mood.
He then failed to get a slice of record company money allocated to the Sisters despite a court battle. He and Eldritch are now reconciled,
personally if not musically.
Subject:
4.12 What do Pre-Raphaelites have to do with goth?
The Pre-Raphaelites were an artistic movement in Victorian England.
They were part of the revival of Gothic architecture. Their art is stunning
- try and see the originals if you can.
Subject: 4.13 What is
'Snakebite'?
Half a lager and half a cider. Lager is what americans would call "beer"
and cider is the same sort of thing made from apples basically. The
combination is somewhat lethal. A lot of pubs will reputedly refuse to
serve it.
Variations: "snakebite black" - the same drink with a splash of black
currant in it, also known as a "purple nasty" up north and is the cliche
goth drink (also can be prepared as snakebite and black with a pernod
and
vodka in it). "red witch" - a snakebite with pernod and black in - not
to be taken lightly under any circumstances. "Anaconda" - made with half
a pint of Theakstons Old Peculiar (or another real ale) and a bottle of
Diamond White or 1080 (or other strong dry cider), a dash of black and
two straws.
Subject: 4.14 What's
all this about Cloves?
'Cloves' are normally used to refer to clove cigarettes, these are
much
like ordinary cigarettes, but contain a small amount of powdered clove.
They are (generally) more expensive than ordinary cigarettes, and
are
reputed to do very nasty things indeed to your lungs.
It is possible to manufacture your own clove cigarettes with ordinary
hand rolling tobacco and powdered clove from a spice supplier. It
is extraordinarily easy to 'overload' home-made clove ciggies though,
so the utmost caution is advised.
Cloves can be very difficult to obtain; apparently they are available
by mail order from 'Tobacco and Novelty Boutique' at http://www.headshopgear.com/CL.htm
There is also a wholesaler Quintin at http://www.quintin.com/index.html
whose site is reputed to contain further information.
For more complete information, see http://www.obscure.org/~vlad/gothic/cloves.html
Subject 4.15: What's
all this about Absinthe?
Absinthe is an alcoholic drink. It is also hallucinogenic and therefore
illegal almost everywhere (if not everywhere).
It should be said that this FAQ does not encourage the
usage/manufacture/trade
of illegal drugs, and that we do not believe that
The following URL is included then for two purposes.
Special thanks to the following for information provided within, beware
however that several of these wonderful and gorgeous people who have made
the alt.gothic FAQ what it is today are no longer with us here on the 'net
(sob sob).
Peter Wake (peterw#cs.man.ac.uk) little o
(cc158019#mail.idt.net)
and others to numerous to mention.... |